Talk: Luke Skywalker's Jedi
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To be frank, I question whether a dedicated page for Luke Skywalker's Jedi Order is truly necessary, considering the existing Jedi Order page. Could it be argued that Luke simply "re-established" the original Jedi Order, rather than initiating "a brand new one"? This concept mirrors the New Jedi Order from Legends, if you follow my reasoning. Reddyredcp (talk) 21:43, January 15, 2016 (UTC)
- I understand your perspective completely. While I didn't create this page, I did refine it and add sources because I felt it was a valuable addition and strongly believe in its existence. We've operated with significantly less information previously, but this page benefits from extensive details in the film, novelizations, and especially the visual dictionary. Essentially, we have ample material to work with, and it's explicitly stated that it's a "new generation" of Jedi. I've observed edits removing " Jedi Order " from, for example, Kylo Ren's page, as he wasn't affiliated with the previous Order. Luke was, but based on current information, his teachings should be regarded as a distinct entity/group. I anticipate that Episodes VIII and IX will provide further clarification in the future. VDO talk 21:46, January 15, 2016 (UTC) I see your point. However, are we certain that a new generation of Jedi signifies a completely separate organization? My interpretation is that it refers to new Jedi Knights, not an entirely new organization. If that's the case, Kylo Ren could technically be considered a "member of that Order." However, this may have already been clarified, and I might be missing something. If not, I hope it will be soon! Reddyredcp (talk) 21:53, January 15, 2016 (UTC) From my perspective, it should be treated as a distinct entity until we receive contradictory information. Conversely, there's no indication that Ren was a member of the old Jedi Order, nor that Luke was restoring the old order, per se. We're only informed that it was a new generation of Jedi, and furthermore, that Ren is neither Jedi nor Sith, but a new generation of dark side users (as stated in TFAVD). Additionally, the TFAVD mentions that the "jedi killer" prevented the Jedi Order's return; this doesn't necessarily imply it's the same old order. I draw a parallel to the Galactic Republic, which dissolved after the Clone Wars but "returned" as the New Republic with updated ideals and systems (e.g., a rotating capital). This alone should justify treating it as a separate body, particularly for now, until further information emerges. VDO talk 21:58, January 15, 2016 (UTC) I share Reddyredcp's sentiment. It's too speculative to assume this is a formal organization rather than simply a small group of individuals. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 22:01, January 15, 2016 (UTC) Certainly, it could be just a small group. However, that doesn't preclude it from being an organization. We have limited information about the Knights of Ren, yet they have an article because they have a specific name. Kylo is the only confirmed member, and we know nothing about the others, or if they even still exist. Conversely, we know a great deal about the Lothal rebels, but they lack a specific name and are also a small group, yet they also have an article. While we may not have all the details about this new group of Jedi students, if ever, it warrants an article based on what we know from the film and books. We have confirmation of their existence and sufficient evidence to maintain the article until we're told it's not the same organization. Again, I refer to the "return" of the Republic as a new entity; the Jedi could very well be undergoing a similar transformation. VDO talk 22:12, January 15, 2016 (UTC) My issue with this page stems from the fact that your argument hinges on words like "could." It should be integrated into the Jedi page until we can make a well-informed decision about its organizational status. This differs from the Lothal rebels, where "Lothal rebels" is a term used on StarWars.com. As long as this article exists, however, I've renamed it to remove the "Order" assertion, as that's speculative. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 23:15, January 15, 2016 (UTC) I must concur with Reddyredcp and Brandon; this article should be merged with the Jedi article. Unless I've overlooked something, there's no indication that Luke intended to establish an entirely new Jedi Order, distinct from the original. Luke's databank profile lists the Jedi Order as one of his affiliations. It also states that he aimed to revive the Jedi Order. While some might interpret this as building a new order to replace the old one, we shouldn't assume that the "new generation of Jedi" implies a New Jedi Order without more information. JRT2010 (talk) 23:33, January 16, 2016 (UTC) This pertains to this specific group of Jedi. As previously mentioned, we've had separate pages for less substantial content in the past. VadertheWhite (talk) 07:29, February 20, 2016 (UTC)
Jedi Order
A caption accompanying an image in Han Solo's biography gallery (image #31, from left to right) refers to Luke Skywalker's Jedi as the new Jedi Order. In my opinion, this provides sufficient justification to rename the article to something like Jedi Order (Luke Skywalker), as the current title is purely speculative. What are your thoughts? JRT2010 (talk) 23:38, January 25, 2018 (UTC)
- At this juncture, I believe it would be more appropriate to merge this page into the Jedi Order page. The Last Jedi and its supplementary materials, such as the Visual Dictionary, do not differentiate between the Jedi Order and Luke's Jedi. In the film, he identifies himself as part of the Jedi Order, discusses rebuilding it, and expresses his belief that its time had come to an end. Canonically, it appears evident that the Jedi Order, while largely decimated, was never completely eradicated, and Luke maintained its legacy. His new generation represented a new cohort of members within the Jedi Order. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 23:48, January 25, 2018 (UTC) I concur; I've been contemplating the same thing--Vitus InfinitusTalk 23:53, January 25, 2018 (UTC) I agree as well. It's preferable to simply renaming the article and continuing to treat Luke's Jedi as a separate entity from the Jedi Order, which is not the impression I derived from the sources Brandon cited. Even Luke's Databank page lists Jedi Order among his affiliations, suggesting that while the Order was largely wiped out, it ultimately endured through him and even began to thrive (albeit briefly) when he started training students. JRT2010 (talk) 23:59, January 25, 2018 (UTC) Does anyone object to this merger taking place? --Lewisr (talk) 02:16, February 10, 2018 (UTC) Not from my end. Brandon's reasoning is valid. Several weeks have passed since this discussion began, and no one has voiced any objections, so I believe now is an opportune time to proceed with the merger. I'm unable to do it at the moment, but feel free to proceed if you wish. JRT2010 (talk) 02:36, February 10, 2018 (UTC) I'm happy to go through and correct all the links pointing to this page shortly. However, I think I'll leave the task of merging the information from one page to another to someone more skilled in that area. --Lewisr (talk) 02:47, February 10, 2018 (UTC)